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walkitoutWatching the behavior of extended family after the death of FIL has clearly taught me something that I have been very slow to learn. No Good Deed Goes Unpunished. If you ever find yourself in a situation where an elderly person in your life is worried about running out of money before they die, I’m not saying, don’t help them. Nobody wants elderly people — even unpleasant ones they personally find reprehensible — dying on the street. That’s why we have social security and similar. We suspect we are all going to be unpleasant, reprehensible in the eyes of those generationally younger than us and, hopefully, elderly at some point, and we would like to be treated with compassion and monetary support if necessary anyway.
But don’t give them any money until their money is gone. Here’s why. If you supplement their money, and they die before their money runs out, you will have spent all that money — and might be expecting some reimbursement from the estate, say — and all the other heirs of that estate will be highly interested in not repaying you. The result of helping the elderly person with money before their money runs out will ultimately be the other heirs trying to screw you out of reimbursement or compensation. You might think they won’t. I hope you are right. But it seems easy enough to wait to supply funds until after the recipient of your largesse is already out of funds. And that includes make sure the house or whatever changes ownership.
Why do I say this.
Well, because I have inlaws who are lawyers, and two of them are responsible for shepherding this probate process along. There are some additional lawyers involved (the decedent, and also the husband of one of the responsible for the process people). One of these lawyers texted asking me to minimize the reimbursement I asked for because if I asked for all of it, there would be no estate, and she wanted to be sure some of it went to a particular heir.
I still have the text. I’m still entertaining taking this up with someone unrelated to the family as a matter to present to a bar association. I’m not _seriously_ entertaining it, but wow. That is not what you are supposed to do when in that particular role.
I had been paying half the decedent’s old folks home bills for quite a while and did not ask for that to be reimbursed. I just wanted him in the home and not running red lights and crashing into other people any more (the other person shepherding this thing along had helped ensure family did not learn about the repeat interactions with traffic enforcement — that, too, is part of a larger pattern involving the heir that the other lawyer was trying to benefit). However, when the decedent was in the last months of life, I was also — with a verbal agreement of reimbursement — paying for round the clock nursing. I did not want to. I wanted him to transfer to a skilled nursing facility, because that would have ensured much better coverage. But the rest of the family didn’t and my husband and I agreed that it was not likely to last long anyway and it did not.
Anyway.
I am the major claim on the estate. The husband lawyer sent me a form to sign saying I released the claim because it had been paid, and told me that when I returned it signed, he would subsequently pay the money. The other in-family lawyers were cc’ed. I’m like, uh, someone care to explain why I would say I had been paid when I had not? I got a bunch of, I’m just trying to be efficient. In an ideal world, we’d be in a room together. Dude, I have done real estate transactions. I know closings. Paying a debt owed by the estate is NOT like a closing. You fucking owe me the money. The money is already gone. Come on. If I wanted to make trouble, I could sue the estate for a bunch of additional money. I would probably win, too, because of those texts your wife sent. Even if I did not win, I could carry on long enough to exhaust the estate completely, and honestly, at this point, that would be enjoyable.
However, I said none of that. I instead said, hey, you have described an escrow process. If there is a proper way to do this, then we should do it the proper way. I can’t really respond fully anyway, as this all occurred while I was overseas.
Upon my return, I had a letter from the real lawyers (hard to think of the corporate lawyers in family as real lawyers after this round). It included an ordinary check for the amount of the claim, and a SASE and another copy of the form. I’ll deposit the check tomorrow and mail the form on Friday, sooner if I see the full amount deposited first. My husband says, the check will clear. I’m like, they are all your relatives, and I know bad judgment when I’ve seen it a few times in the same person. Which I _also_ did not say out loud.
Meanwhile, lawyer couple — remember, they attempted to reduce my claim to benefit a specific heir — did not want to write a check to me, because they had a duty of whatever the fuck. And I’m sitting here going, I am not a lawyer. But also, I watch the news. Lawyers do crimes, too. And y’all have a multi-year pattern at this point.
The other lawyer (so, so, many lawyers! Decedent was a lawyer, too, and gleefully took credit for the carried interest rule in taxes, so this is the kind of people I’m related to, and they used to scare me, but seriously, they just fucking don’t any more, because I keep contemporaneous documentation. Also, I can afford to hire real lawyers) was fine with writing me a check. But readers who read the post about how people respond to me will recognize when I say, that was also the person who said I’d recover from jetlag in a day. So. There _may_ have been some soul searching and change over there, but probably coming in under the Too Little Too Late category.
Long story, simple rule. Do not pay bills for an elderly person until they run their money out. If that policy is good enough for Medicaid, it is good enough for you, too. If there is no money in the estate, there is no probate. And there are no problematic family relationships to be destroyed by bad behavior during probate.
I’m trying to figure out if I _really_ regret having erred in this way, or if I will ultimately feel satisfaction at having received such a pointed lesson in life, but at least you can learn from my mistakes.
But don’t give them any money until their money is gone. Here’s why. If you supplement their money, and they die before their money runs out, you will have spent all that money — and might be expecting some reimbursement from the estate, say — and all the other heirs of that estate will be highly interested in not repaying you. The result of helping the elderly person with money before their money runs out will ultimately be the other heirs trying to screw you out of reimbursement or compensation. You might think they won’t. I hope you are right. But it seems easy enough to wait to supply funds until after the recipient of your largesse is already out of funds. And that includes make sure the house or whatever changes ownership.
Why do I say this.
Well, because I have inlaws who are lawyers, and two of them are responsible for shepherding this probate process along. There are some additional lawyers involved (the decedent, and also the husband of one of the responsible for the process people). One of these lawyers texted asking me to minimize the reimbursement I asked for because if I asked for all of it, there would be no estate, and she wanted to be sure some of it went to a particular heir.
I still have the text. I’m still entertaining taking this up with someone unrelated to the family as a matter to present to a bar association. I’m not _seriously_ entertaining it, but wow. That is not what you are supposed to do when in that particular role.
I had been paying half the decedent’s old folks home bills for quite a while and did not ask for that to be reimbursed. I just wanted him in the home and not running red lights and crashing into other people any more (the other person shepherding this thing along had helped ensure family did not learn about the repeat interactions with traffic enforcement — that, too, is part of a larger pattern involving the heir that the other lawyer was trying to benefit). However, when the decedent was in the last months of life, I was also — with a verbal agreement of reimbursement — paying for round the clock nursing. I did not want to. I wanted him to transfer to a skilled nursing facility, because that would have ensured much better coverage. But the rest of the family didn’t and my husband and I agreed that it was not likely to last long anyway and it did not.
Anyway.
I am the major claim on the estate. The husband lawyer sent me a form to sign saying I released the claim because it had been paid, and told me that when I returned it signed, he would subsequently pay the money. The other in-family lawyers were cc’ed. I’m like, uh, someone care to explain why I would say I had been paid when I had not? I got a bunch of, I’m just trying to be efficient. In an ideal world, we’d be in a room together. Dude, I have done real estate transactions. I know closings. Paying a debt owed by the estate is NOT like a closing. You fucking owe me the money. The money is already gone. Come on. If I wanted to make trouble, I could sue the estate for a bunch of additional money. I would probably win, too, because of those texts your wife sent. Even if I did not win, I could carry on long enough to exhaust the estate completely, and honestly, at this point, that would be enjoyable.
However, I said none of that. I instead said, hey, you have described an escrow process. If there is a proper way to do this, then we should do it the proper way. I can’t really respond fully anyway, as this all occurred while I was overseas.
Upon my return, I had a letter from the real lawyers (hard to think of the corporate lawyers in family as real lawyers after this round). It included an ordinary check for the amount of the claim, and a SASE and another copy of the form. I’ll deposit the check tomorrow and mail the form on Friday, sooner if I see the full amount deposited first. My husband says, the check will clear. I’m like, they are all your relatives, and I know bad judgment when I’ve seen it a few times in the same person. Which I _also_ did not say out loud.
Meanwhile, lawyer couple — remember, they attempted to reduce my claim to benefit a specific heir — did not want to write a check to me, because they had a duty of whatever the fuck. And I’m sitting here going, I am not a lawyer. But also, I watch the news. Lawyers do crimes, too. And y’all have a multi-year pattern at this point.
The other lawyer (so, so, many lawyers! Decedent was a lawyer, too, and gleefully took credit for the carried interest rule in taxes, so this is the kind of people I’m related to, and they used to scare me, but seriously, they just fucking don’t any more, because I keep contemporaneous documentation. Also, I can afford to hire real lawyers) was fine with writing me a check. But readers who read the post about how people respond to me will recognize when I say, that was also the person who said I’d recover from jetlag in a day. So. There _may_ have been some soul searching and change over there, but probably coming in under the Too Little Too Late category.
Long story, simple rule. Do not pay bills for an elderly person until they run their money out. If that policy is good enough for Medicaid, it is good enough for you, too. If there is no money in the estate, there is no probate. And there are no problematic family relationships to be destroyed by bad behavior during probate.
I’m trying to figure out if I _really_ regret having erred in this way, or if I will ultimately feel satisfaction at having received such a pointed lesson in life, but at least you can learn from my mistakes.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-14 03:17 am (UTC)