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walkitoutActually, it’s a very old kind of outlet store.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07/liquidators-become-shopkeepers-to-peddle-pandemic-s-unsold-goods
There’s one in Natick, apparently. Basically, we’ve got some empty department stores with the racks and everything still in place, and we’ve got mountains of 2020 goods that sat unsold in locked down stores. Two of those companies that do liquidation sales got together to bolt those things together.
I have no idea how long this will last, but it makes sense that it is out there now. Better that than going to a landfill, for sure.
My daughter says I’m pretty mean when I blog (look, she is in NO WAY wrong), and I explained that I write stuff in my blog so the people I actually care about don’t have to hear it in person unless they really want to. Anyone who objects to my blog gets even worse, until they go away, or I break down and block them (<== rare, but it happens). (Obviously, if I say something factually incorrect, I will make an effort to correct it when I realize that.) Anyway, I figured I’d make an effort here to write something that was not mean. It won’t last.
My sister has been thrifting lately, and her kids are enjoying the hell out of it. She’s always tended to thrift rather than buy new, and lately she’s been getting a kick out of buying to resell on eBay and similar. She’s got a better than average eye for what might resell for more, and of course she’s found a bunch of tools to help her out with the pricing and has figured out how to search sold items on eBay to figure out what is currently moving. I get the appeal; my own spot on the time / money tradeoff chain is such that it’s not a sport I’m going to be engaging in any time soon. But we were raised on garage sales and used furniture stores, and pinching pennies until they scream for mercy is multigenerational kick in our ancestry. My dad tells fond stories of the deals his dad got on like-new toys in the early ‘30s; we are in no way too proud to benefit from the downfall of others.
Several trends were already intersecting to make re-commerce a thing even before the pandemic. Linkage to follow.
https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/rise-re-commerce-everything-old-new/
Article from Jan 2020 about Rent the Runway, thredUP, with a focus on consumer guilt. “He said it features high-quality attractive photos, clear information and sophisticated functionality so it resembles retail platforms rather than platforms selling items people are getting rid of.” I was surprised to learn that “thredUP has been forming partnerships with large retailers such as Macy’s and J.C. Penney, and it is now operating over 100 store-in-store collaborations.” That’s eye-poppingly similar to that point in time when bookstores, trying to stave off the threat from then-bookstore Amazon, resorted to selling new and used in the same stores. More rapid turnover (new things arriving more frequently) gets more people in the door (this is, after all, a pre-pandemic piece). My sister has noted differing levels of crowds in the different towns / shops she has thrifted, so it’s something she is sensitive to and thus probably an indicator of effective pricing strategies. Other interesting item in this piece: Rent the Runway got started by trying to regularize the “Buy” expensive dress, wear expensive dress once, return expensive dress in a department store behavior. Ha! Totally makes sense — did not see that coming at all. Interesting discussion at the end about whether buying used is okay for a gift.
https://econreview.berkeley.edu/rise-of-thrifting-solution-to-fast-fashion-or-stealing-from-the-poor/
More things to feel guilty about! One of the criticisms of things like Imperfect Foods or Misfits Market is that selling ugly produce at a significant markup to the privileged diverts food from the Poor Who Need It to Be Cheap. I’m never sure whether there is any validity to this kind of argument (seems sus, when my friends who volunteer at food banks are still telling horror stories of all the perfectly good food they wind up throwing away every week), but here it is with clothing! The popularity of thrifting is apparently especially bad to the extent it drives up the price of used plus size clothing. *blink*
See, this just seems weird? I mean, if the price of the used item goes up, people take a hard look at it to see if there is an opportunity. Donation generates a lot of thrifted supply, but resell from original owners is a component as well. Just like with cars, as used prices go up, someone who can afford to buy new will do so more frequently, if they can extract more value earlier from the earlier purchase. But, you know, whatever.
https://www.statepress.com/article/2020/09/specho-the-noxious-progression-of-thrifting-culture
Nice amount of detail about Depop, more angsting about lack of plus sizes at thrift stores, prices going up at thrift stores (supply / demand / duh), the deployment of gentrification terminology and all kinds of other stuff here.
Skinny people buying plus size to rework garments is apparently a Thing that as attracted some Ire as well. https://medium.com/emfatic/buying-plus-size-clothes-at-thrift-stores-is-a-pain-in-the-a-7b2de2f6af83 This article has links to more examples of the people-buying-big-stuff-for-the-fabric, but more relevantly, it has this:
“one pair of cute as hell, brand new (still had the tags and the baggie with the extra button) $60 gray dress pants in my size for $5. There was just one problem: when I tried them on, they fit perfectly around the waist but were more than a foot too long”
!!!
OK, so, first, learn to fucking sew hems on pants. That’s not even that hard. Cost is a needle and color compatible thread and either tape or pins. Over and under and tie a knot. OK, scissors or a knife, too. Fine. It’s classier if you iron it, but not totally necessary. Second, in a pinch, you can just fucking tape the legs; I’ve done it before for someone in a hurry and it works fine. Third, if you can’t sew and won’t sew and won’t get some tape, then make a friend who sews. If I knew you, I’d do it for you.
I think I’m just about done here. I will either be back with another link or N, or I’ll start another post.
Above average summary: https://www.popsci.com/story/environment/thrift-second-hand-shopping-sustainable-ethical/
I’m still mulling over the But You’ll Price the Poor Out argument. If we’re mostly shipping stuff overseas and only the cherry-picked stuff is landing on the floor, one would assume they could replenish easily. Also, and more relevantly, the charity shop exists to extract cash for the cause — it’s only partly there to supply the Poors with clothing. In any event, plenty of middle class folks have been shopping thrift forever to avoid paying more money; they could have, but they didn’t want to. Goodwill probably would like it if they could drift their prices up; they could use the cash for their causes. Also, some amount of pandemic price rises in thrift stores must have reflected broad increases in operating costs due to pandemic changes (need for additional cleaning, ventilation upgrades, PPE, etc.).
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07/liquidators-become-shopkeepers-to-peddle-pandemic-s-unsold-goods
There’s one in Natick, apparently. Basically, we’ve got some empty department stores with the racks and everything still in place, and we’ve got mountains of 2020 goods that sat unsold in locked down stores. Two of those companies that do liquidation sales got together to bolt those things together.
I have no idea how long this will last, but it makes sense that it is out there now. Better that than going to a landfill, for sure.
My daughter says I’m pretty mean when I blog (look, she is in NO WAY wrong), and I explained that I write stuff in my blog so the people I actually care about don’t have to hear it in person unless they really want to. Anyone who objects to my blog gets even worse, until they go away, or I break down and block them (<== rare, but it happens). (Obviously, if I say something factually incorrect, I will make an effort to correct it when I realize that.) Anyway, I figured I’d make an effort here to write something that was not mean. It won’t last.
My sister has been thrifting lately, and her kids are enjoying the hell out of it. She’s always tended to thrift rather than buy new, and lately she’s been getting a kick out of buying to resell on eBay and similar. She’s got a better than average eye for what might resell for more, and of course she’s found a bunch of tools to help her out with the pricing and has figured out how to search sold items on eBay to figure out what is currently moving. I get the appeal; my own spot on the time / money tradeoff chain is such that it’s not a sport I’m going to be engaging in any time soon. But we were raised on garage sales and used furniture stores, and pinching pennies until they scream for mercy is multigenerational kick in our ancestry. My dad tells fond stories of the deals his dad got on like-new toys in the early ‘30s; we are in no way too proud to benefit from the downfall of others.
Several trends were already intersecting to make re-commerce a thing even before the pandemic. Linkage to follow.
https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/rise-re-commerce-everything-old-new/
Article from Jan 2020 about Rent the Runway, thredUP, with a focus on consumer guilt. “He said it features high-quality attractive photos, clear information and sophisticated functionality so it resembles retail platforms rather than platforms selling items people are getting rid of.” I was surprised to learn that “thredUP has been forming partnerships with large retailers such as Macy’s and J.C. Penney, and it is now operating over 100 store-in-store collaborations.” That’s eye-poppingly similar to that point in time when bookstores, trying to stave off the threat from then-bookstore Amazon, resorted to selling new and used in the same stores. More rapid turnover (new things arriving more frequently) gets more people in the door (this is, after all, a pre-pandemic piece). My sister has noted differing levels of crowds in the different towns / shops she has thrifted, so it’s something she is sensitive to and thus probably an indicator of effective pricing strategies. Other interesting item in this piece: Rent the Runway got started by trying to regularize the “Buy” expensive dress, wear expensive dress once, return expensive dress in a department store behavior. Ha! Totally makes sense — did not see that coming at all. Interesting discussion at the end about whether buying used is okay for a gift.
https://econreview.berkeley.edu/rise-of-thrifting-solution-to-fast-fashion-or-stealing-from-the-poor/
More things to feel guilty about! One of the criticisms of things like Imperfect Foods or Misfits Market is that selling ugly produce at a significant markup to the privileged diverts food from the Poor Who Need It to Be Cheap. I’m never sure whether there is any validity to this kind of argument (seems sus, when my friends who volunteer at food banks are still telling horror stories of all the perfectly good food they wind up throwing away every week), but here it is with clothing! The popularity of thrifting is apparently especially bad to the extent it drives up the price of used plus size clothing. *blink*
See, this just seems weird? I mean, if the price of the used item goes up, people take a hard look at it to see if there is an opportunity. Donation generates a lot of thrifted supply, but resell from original owners is a component as well. Just like with cars, as used prices go up, someone who can afford to buy new will do so more frequently, if they can extract more value earlier from the earlier purchase. But, you know, whatever.
https://www.statepress.com/article/2020/09/specho-the-noxious-progression-of-thrifting-culture
Nice amount of detail about Depop, more angsting about lack of plus sizes at thrift stores, prices going up at thrift stores (supply / demand / duh), the deployment of gentrification terminology and all kinds of other stuff here.
Skinny people buying plus size to rework garments is apparently a Thing that as attracted some Ire as well. https://medium.com/emfatic/buying-plus-size-clothes-at-thrift-stores-is-a-pain-in-the-a-7b2de2f6af83 This article has links to more examples of the people-buying-big-stuff-for-the-fabric, but more relevantly, it has this:
“one pair of cute as hell, brand new (still had the tags and the baggie with the extra button) $60 gray dress pants in my size for $5. There was just one problem: when I tried them on, they fit perfectly around the waist but were more than a foot too long”
!!!
OK, so, first, learn to fucking sew hems on pants. That’s not even that hard. Cost is a needle and color compatible thread and either tape or pins. Over and under and tie a knot. OK, scissors or a knife, too. Fine. It’s classier if you iron it, but not totally necessary. Second, in a pinch, you can just fucking tape the legs; I’ve done it before for someone in a hurry and it works fine. Third, if you can’t sew and won’t sew and won’t get some tape, then make a friend who sews. If I knew you, I’d do it for you.
I think I’m just about done here. I will either be back with another link or N, or I’ll start another post.
Above average summary: https://www.popsci.com/story/environment/thrift-second-hand-shopping-sustainable-ethical/
I’m still mulling over the But You’ll Price the Poor Out argument. If we’re mostly shipping stuff overseas and only the cherry-picked stuff is landing on the floor, one would assume they could replenish easily. Also, and more relevantly, the charity shop exists to extract cash for the cause — it’s only partly there to supply the Poors with clothing. In any event, plenty of middle class folks have been shopping thrift forever to avoid paying more money; they could have, but they didn’t want to. Goodwill probably would like it if they could drift their prices up; they could use the cash for their causes. Also, some amount of pandemic price rises in thrift stores must have reflected broad increases in operating costs due to pandemic changes (need for additional cleaning, ventilation upgrades, PPE, etc.).
no subject
Date: 2021-07-21 03:23 am (UTC)I do run into cases of charity stores that started out selling cheap and turning over their stock a lot where some of the volunteers decided they should be classier and charge more, and it was a bust - they lost a lot of custom because they weren't good at picking prices. Not so much that it was bad to jack the prices up at all, but that they underestimated how much skill and time it takes to process clothes and differentiate prices by quality and condition. There are a bunch of different good ways to do secondhand stuff, and I've paid widely varying prices depending on the venue without a murmur, but people shouldn't do the ones they're bad at.
But how is the woman who needs those pants going to find them before the stock is turned?
Date: 2021-07-21 02:55 pm (UTC)ETA:
The more I read these articles, the weirder they seem to me. I’m happy that you are able to make sense of the reasoning. However, when I read your explanation, it does not make it clearer to me. It makes it less clear. I agree with you that pricing is hard, and easy to get wrong in a way that chases customers away in a price-sensitive environment like a charity store.
Part of what is going on in both our exchange, and in the various articles I am reading, is complex moral reasoning layered on top of price/value calculations. This seems like a lot of weight to put on a purchase at a thrift store.
Finally, I would observe that if we did reduce the overproduction of smaller-size-range clothes (goal of many people involved in this cultural debate, if not necessarily of either of us), it would put even greater pressure on the plus size end, because you can shrink a plus size garment, but upsizing a small one is hard-to-impossible. Sure, the ratio is bad now, but the absolute numbers could be much worse.
Re: But how is the woman who needs those pants going to find them before the stock is turned?
Date: 2021-07-21 05:21 pm (UTC)Incidentally, I recently got free pants off Buy Nothing that I had to hem. I hemmed them once, and they were still too long because I misjudged. I took that hem out and hemmed them again and they were pretty good. The other evening I was walking barefoot in the sand and the pants were dragging, so I turned them up the width of the hem, which was a good two inches. They were still only just above my foot. (I can't explain it. B. says maybe I am just getting stumpier.) I will probably have to hem them a third time. Not to mention my hems don't always look good enough to be appropriate at work. It doesn't matter for pants that I love because they have breathable hiking fabric and eleven pockets, rather than for their looks, but it would for office pants.
I think the idea is to reduce the demand as well as the supply for clothing (people not buying way, way, way more than they need), and to have rather more inventory, or more consistently available inventory, in larger sizes (larger people getting to buy as much as they need). Those don't seem at all incompatible to me. The more you get people what they actually need, the more they use the thing they bought and the less waste there is.
Re: But how is the woman who needs those pants going to find them before the stock is turned?
Date: 2021-07-21 05:42 pm (UTC)Re: your hemming woes are not uncommon. It’s not _necessarily_ a matter of misjudging. All full length leg hemming (skirt or pant) is based on a set of assumptions about heel height, and can further be influenced by some other body attributes (basically, inches traversing waist to crotch, if variable, can affect where the bottom of the garment falls). Translated: take shoes off, hem will be in the wrong place, wear higher heels, hem in the wrong place, gain or lose some water weight in the belly, butt or even the hip, ditto.
I’ve also measured overall height variation in myself pre- and post- stretching routine over a period of weeks as exceeding a half inch. Aging is no joke, and gravity is a powerful force.
Your last paragraph is an interesting one, and not at all how supply / demand / commodity supply works in my experience. In general, when a group of people reduces consumption in the face of excess supply, supply does _not_ reduce, and in some instances, may actually increase as price to the producer per unit drops and producers produce more to try to make it up on volume. It’s one of those perverse capitalism things that we’ve been struggling with for over a century, and people still keep Not Getting It. If you want to reduce supply, you don’t do it by reducing demand. I mean, obviously, if you get _enough_ bankruptcy and producers unable to continue to producing because their production capacity is taken away from them by the creditors or whatever, you’ll eventually see reduction in supply. But it can take a while, and even then, creditors often will continue to produce in an effort to get value out of what they repo’d.
Finally, if she didn’t want the pants, I don’t think she should have bought them. If she didn’t buy the pants because hemming them would have thrown off the line of the garment, sure, fine, whatever. Not buying the pants to leave them on the rack for a hypothetical future buyer who might need precisely that length of pant leg is gobsmackingly wacko. Hard to imagine any interviewer caring about the quality of the hem on a thrifted garment originating from LB, honestly. If Wal-Mart pants are good enough, that hem doesn’t need to be very awesome.
Re: But how is the woman who needs those pants going to find them before the stock is turned?
Date: 2021-07-21 06:21 pm (UTC)Re: But how is the woman who needs those pants going to find them before the stock is turned?
Date: 2021-07-21 07:16 pm (UTC)Yes, the automakers did cancel a bunch of their orders for chips early on in the pandemic, because they learned (finally!) during the Great Recession that continuing full production into a recession is a terrible idea. It took them several lesser downturns to finally absorb this lesson (and we had to bail them out). You could argue that airlines finally _also_ learned this lesson during fuel price spike preceding the Great Recession that forced them to actually run full planes in order to not go out of business.
JIT in general _is_ about only producing what is actually needed. Of course, there are a lot of people wandering around now saying that JIT is a terrible idea, so it’ll be interesting to see where that goes. It may actually be the case that JIT and reducing production to match demand will actually spread through more / cheaper per unit products. Seats on an airplane and cars are kinda expensive in a variety of ways (to the producer, as well as the consumer). Will food and clothing producers similarly reduce overproduction to better match demand? They might! They haven’t. And honestly, it is at times a bit scary when there is a better match between supply and demand in food (when we were in the throes of ethanol production, it was hitting poor people in other parts of the world kinda hard by raising the price of cooking oils).
If we do actually reduce the production of clothing to match the demand for clothing, then reducing demand for clothing further would be a useful intervention to further reduce the production of clothing. Water and fossil fuels are two big components of the cost of producing clothing; a rise in the price of those inputs, or regulations limiting the ability of makers to use unlimited amounts of those inputs, would have an impact on supply, for sure. FWIW, reducing the access to unlimited water by manufacturers is high on my list of Things We Should Focus Political Energy On.
Re: But how is the woman who needs those pants going to find them before the stock is turned?
Date: 2021-07-21 08:08 pm (UTC)Re: But how is the woman who needs those pants going to find them before the stock is turned?
Date: 2021-07-21 08:42 pm (UTC)Probably we should also think about how we can integrate into education basic ideas like: if the price dropped due to too much supply, you should NOT try to make up your lost income with even more supply. It’ll require some math, but it would be broadly useful for farmers, extractive industries, and lots of manufacturing businesses. It took a long time for cars and chip makers to figure it out, but they eventually learned, so maybe there is hope.