Tuesday: walks, groceries, piano lessons
Sep. 17th, 2019 06:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
walkitoutI got a walk with J. I went grocery shopping. I walked with M. I had a lovely convo with J. (Different J.)
I picked up A. (got a ride partway with J., who I went walking with earlier). She told me about Cameo.com, which is fascinating! I love monetization strategies the helps smooth the curve out between super star and nobody; it seems wrong that so many household names struggle to get any money out of their accomplishments.
I have not been commenting much on the rolling disaster that the Epstein / MIT connection has been experiencing. MIT media lab has been such a useless ... whatever it is, it does not make me sad to see the head of it have to step down for taking money from Epstein. Super weird to see Ackman enter into it in an effort to protect his new wife, Oxman. Obviously, nerds everywhere fail to appreciate (hey, I suffer from the same flaw) just how it is going to look when their communications are read by an unexpectedly wide audience. Still. It did not help anyone for him to try to protect her.
The latest, tho, I sort of feel compelled to comment on. The troll has finally departed the AI lab! While someone (realistically, probably 6-12 someones) bashed on RMS enough to convince him that it is damaging for children when adults have sex with them, he has not yet progressed to the point where he could recognize that 70something Minsky having sex with a teenager was absolutely unjustifiable, no matter what term was used to describe it. Here is a slashdot summary of what got the troll moved along away from the younger people, or at least, where MIT’s umbrella might have gotten its spokes caught in whatever happened next.
https://m.slashdot.org/story/360908
“Stallman argued that "the most plausible scenario" is that "she presented herself to him as entirely willing"”
This is part of a larger argument that I am uninterested in. My point is simple: in what universe does a 70 something year old nerd like Minsky think that a 17 year old known associate of a middle-aged billionaire coming on to him could count as willing? The fact someone so young was orbiting a middle aged man and then coming on to even older associates of rich dude should have set off every single red flag that Minsky owned. Which was apparently none, and Stallman probably has never encountered a red flag anywhere.
Honestly, Minsky must have seen his share of gurus and hangers on go by over the decades. How did he not recognize male power over younger women? Probably the same thought process that requires us to explain to people that unconscious people cannot consent.
Housecleaning continues apace.
I picked up A. (got a ride partway with J., who I went walking with earlier). She told me about Cameo.com, which is fascinating! I love monetization strategies the helps smooth the curve out between super star and nobody; it seems wrong that so many household names struggle to get any money out of their accomplishments.
I have not been commenting much on the rolling disaster that the Epstein / MIT connection has been experiencing. MIT media lab has been such a useless ... whatever it is, it does not make me sad to see the head of it have to step down for taking money from Epstein. Super weird to see Ackman enter into it in an effort to protect his new wife, Oxman. Obviously, nerds everywhere fail to appreciate (hey, I suffer from the same flaw) just how it is going to look when their communications are read by an unexpectedly wide audience. Still. It did not help anyone for him to try to protect her.
The latest, tho, I sort of feel compelled to comment on. The troll has finally departed the AI lab! While someone (realistically, probably 6-12 someones) bashed on RMS enough to convince him that it is damaging for children when adults have sex with them, he has not yet progressed to the point where he could recognize that 70something Minsky having sex with a teenager was absolutely unjustifiable, no matter what term was used to describe it. Here is a slashdot summary of what got the troll moved along away from the younger people, or at least, where MIT’s umbrella might have gotten its spokes caught in whatever happened next.
https://m.slashdot.org/story/360908
“Stallman argued that "the most plausible scenario" is that "she presented herself to him as entirely willing"”
This is part of a larger argument that I am uninterested in. My point is simple: in what universe does a 70 something year old nerd like Minsky think that a 17 year old known associate of a middle-aged billionaire coming on to him could count as willing? The fact someone so young was orbiting a middle aged man and then coming on to even older associates of rich dude should have set off every single red flag that Minsky owned. Which was apparently none, and Stallman probably has never encountered a red flag anywhere.
Honestly, Minsky must have seen his share of gurus and hangers on go by over the decades. How did he not recognize male power over younger women? Probably the same thought process that requires us to explain to people that unconscious people cannot consent.
Housecleaning continues apace.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-20 04:29 am (UTC)"Weirdest (though arguably not worst) anecdote: Stallman has been somewhere on the creepiness/sexual harassment spectrum for years, and also apparently has a phobia about plants. Therefore, women working in his general vicinity have taken to what could best be described as office agriculture as a way of encouraging him to keep his distance."
They had to pin plants on themselves
Date: 2019-09-20 01:01 pm (UTC)I do not know if it is correct to say he is worse than I thought, but the details are definitely more ... bizarre ... even than I had expected.
ETA: the comments thread is really interesting. But I am a little disappointed at how many people got hung up on 17 vs. 18 years old. We fixed those laws in most states decades ago, to reflect that if two people close in age were sexual together, that was not a problem, and it was treated much more seriously if the two people were NOT close in age, with a scale (usually three steps) embedded in the statute so it would be a bright line. These are called romeo and juliet laws, and it is not hard to learn about them nor is it hard to find explanations for the rationale behind them:
https://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/violent_crimes/romeo-and-juliet-law.htm
Or, heck:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape#Romeo_and_Juliet_laws
When discussing the Minsky Giuffre situation (whatever may or may not have occurred there), to focus on the age of one party _and not the other party_ is to ignore a massive cultural debate that we went through 20 years ago, and _changed the law to reflect our values better_. We used to have a system in which children were still the property of their father, and thus having sex with that property without the permission of its own was a serious crime. Now we have a system where we recognize a power differential between individuals that can interfere with the ability to give meaningful consent.
If you are going to nerd about law, probably should actually understand the current relevant law (altho I guess I do not know Bahamian law on the topic ... but I could fix that ... looks like they have old skool 16 years of age, so if both parties are underage, both can be prosecuted. That is for het sex; for same sex it is 18. That should probably all be changed. They seem to recognize there is a need to do so, as well.). (But the discussion is not specific to the Bahamas anyway — people are acting like it is still old skool statutory in the US, which is mostly is not.)
ETA: Oh, I am an idiot and the ars article covered that the original exchange pointed out that US Virgin Island (relevant jurisdiction for Lolita Island apparently!) is 18, with close in age exemptions (romeo and juliet, which would obviously not apply to Marvin Minsky, but YET another opportunity to grasp the accepted social rule that was blown through by the troll).
ETAYA: https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec210794
Read it! People keep saying things about what it does and does not say. It is wonderful! It does not mischaracterize anything. She is fantastic!
Re: They had to pin plants on themselves
Date: 2019-09-21 04:16 am (UTC)