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Friday involved a lot of talking
Dec. 6th, 2024 11:00 pmI walked with M.
I had a delightful phone call with K. It was interrupted by a phone call from SIL with a request for financial assistance. I listened to a lot of words just kind of waterfall rapidly past me (note to self: overachieving on “pressured speech”, which I honestly had not thought was possible. Not auctioneer voice yet, but closing in on it). The financial assistance request involved a condo in Florida. The person in question is in the process of getting divorced, and the marital assets include at least three pieces of real estate (I think it’s one house and two condos, but it could be two houses and one condo). Because the person talking to me wants the house, they aren’t getting the condo in Florida, and so they want to buy a different condo in Florida. However, because the divorce is in process, they obviously can’t access marital assets until the divorce is completed.
From my perspective, I don’t understand why one would need to buy real estate while in the process of divorcing? It can wait? I mean, renting a place is a thing? Making a commitment to real estate in the midst of that degree of chaos sounds like poor judgment just on the face of it, but then there’s all the weird legal ambiguity plus if — and this part I have no idea about — there’s a mortgage involved, then that creates all kinds of potential awkward. I was told that on top of all those general observations, accounts were frozen, WHICH THEY FUCKING WELL SHOULD BE DO NOT BE STUPID LIKE WALKITOUT WAS WHEN YOUNG AND GETTING DIVORCED. I asked my then husband if he was going to clean the accounts out and he said no. Because he already had.
I mean, obviously, you get the money back in the course of the divorce (or not, in my case, but it went towards paying down debt so whatever), one way or the other but it can create real cash flow headaches if you need to buy groceries or pay rent and there’s nothing left in the account to pay it with.
SIL also said something about using her 401K to pay for the condo, which other people immediately said was a terrible idea, but when I listened to what they said on that topic, I was like, do you people even know how this shit works. If she borrowed the money and paid it back promptly, it shouldn’t be an issue. Altho she is under 59 1/2, so she’d have to be cautious. Honestly, if she borrowed the contents and had to pay it back with interest, it would make me feel like Universe delivered on FAFO. The divorcing couple really screwed over S. and the kids by backing J. in that divorce, and S. had to borrow a bunch of money from her 401K and various other high interest sources to get a good lawyer to fight off the two lawyers who are now in process of divorcing themselves.
A variety of things were included in the Waterfall of Words, and I’ve done a little checking around to try to understand more of the picture. I don’t think that anyone involved is lying, but I definitely do think that different elements of the truth are being presented in ways that are potentially misleading. Bernie Sanders ran on Vermont’s universal health care program, which had never been implemented and the enabling legislation undone at the time he ran on it. Did Vermont pass universal health care? Yes. Did it ever HAVE universal health care? No. Was that known when he was putting those ads out in 2016? Yes. I feel like that’s the vibe here, as well.
A little side note here. If someone ever takes your passport and won’t give it back to you, you should take that issue to the police. The specific law or laws being broken would be determined based on the precise scenario involved. If you are shopping this story to friends and family instead of going to the police, it’s instantly suspicious behavior. If someone tells you this story, and you think it’s NOT a ploy, then you should get them the hell away from whoever is holding their passport and when they are safe, help them through the process of establishing themselves in a separate life. However, in this particular instance, it appears that the passport was in an odd spot in the house, took a while to find, had already been FedExed, and the person telling me this story either knew all that, or just needed to go check her delivery locker at the marital condo and pick it up.
Did I say anything at all about this? No. No, I did not. All I said on that phone call was, I am here. I am listening. And then the waterfall continued, and when the Ask started, I said I didn’t feel comfortable getting in the middle of that, that R. (her brother) is her brother and I’m not getting in the middle of THAT either, and that R. and I have separate accounts. She said something along the lines of, I had wondered about that and got off the phone extremely quickly.
I assumed she would call R., but she didn’t. Not then and not later. R. and I talked for a bit, because the pressured speech, the plan to leave the country on a vacation while also trying to buy a condo while in the middle of a divorce added up in my head to someone who was Extremely Not In A Good Way. Whatever the rest of the story and whether any particular details were true or represented accurately or whether I had correctly understood anything seemed very minor by comparison.
I texted my niece and nephew to make it extremely clear that if they needed support, I was there for them. I pulled out the will and read through the list of people who are supposed to step up in the event of something really awful happening, and confirmed that this SIL is either not on a list or is the last person on the list. And I leaned on R. to think through what kind of relationship he wants with this sister going forward and what actions we should or should not take in support of that. He called his other sister and they had a chat and then we went out to dinner at Less Than Greater Than.
I went _back_ to my phone call with K. after the interruption, and she kindly listened to me supportively and then we carried on with our chat. It was extremely pleasant; I love her dearly. She’s really a reminder that some lawyers use their training for Good.
During the dinner with R. at Less Than Greater Than, BIL (the other half of the divorcing couple) called, and I picked up the phone with “I love you and I do want to talk to you but I’m at dinner now can I call you back in an hour or two or is this very urgent”, and he was headed to dinner in that time frame so we scheduled a call at 10 pm. Yes, this is my life now.
After dinner, I did FF and while J was not there because he was under the weather, the rest of us had a nice chat. P is going through the agonizing process of trying to find a high school for offspring that will be supportive of Their Complicated Awesomeness, so we talked some more about that. I also got to share some of the Ongoing Saga of In Laws; people really perk up when they hear there’s a new episode.
The 10ish pm phone call happened, and wrapped up after midnight. (You can see what I mean by Friday Involved a Lot of Talking). I generally enjoy talking to BIL. He usually listens to me at least somewhat, which compared to a lot of the inlaws is huge. He’s thoughtful and funny and loves his kids and he’s codependent as fuck and I don’t even really believe in codependency as a thing. There are supportive professionals in the picture and I _did_ say some things about lenses for thinking about relationships and the importance, as one relationship is winding down, of making sure that you understand your contribution in the patterns that led to that result so that you make different choices in future relationships. Because if there is a theme in Walkitout’s life and advice, it is that. It’s boring AF to make the same mistake. Always be making new mistakes.
Random bit of advice based on my interpretation of some things that were said. If you are out there engaging in online dating, make sure your photos are numerous and current (duh, you know that) but also, make sure that when people meet you in person, their first thought is, Wow, you’re even more attractive than I expected. Don’t make that photo your BEST look. Leave a little as a surprise to the in person meeting. Obviously, attractive photos help get you to that first date, but that little oomph can create an extremely positive frame around the interactions you have on that first date.
Finally, separate accounts, folks. Separate. Accounts. But if you didn’t do separate accounts, if you think you’re in a relationship with someone whose financial choices are not yours, go lock those fuckers down, in writing, unambiguously until you can get them separated. Marriage is supposed to help you accumulate assets, but people who are in distress can sometimes burn all that down.
ETA: If you’ve been thinking through this whole, long post But What If The Condo Will Cost Way More By the Time the Divorce is Done? Well, I still read Calculated Risk / Bill McBride’s blog, which means I’m still tracking real estate by market across the country on the regular. Condo is in Florida; it’ll be cheaper next year and the choices will be better.
ETAYA: I would say, how could I forget, but I mean. I got a call from SK because JB and DStM escalated my question about How Do I Do a Bonus For You. So we figured that out, which was really nice. I was too chicken to call and ask and it was Fixed for Me which I really appreciate.
I had a delightful phone call with K. It was interrupted by a phone call from SIL with a request for financial assistance. I listened to a lot of words just kind of waterfall rapidly past me (note to self: overachieving on “pressured speech”, which I honestly had not thought was possible. Not auctioneer voice yet, but closing in on it). The financial assistance request involved a condo in Florida. The person in question is in the process of getting divorced, and the marital assets include at least three pieces of real estate (I think it’s one house and two condos, but it could be two houses and one condo). Because the person talking to me wants the house, they aren’t getting the condo in Florida, and so they want to buy a different condo in Florida. However, because the divorce is in process, they obviously can’t access marital assets until the divorce is completed.
From my perspective, I don’t understand why one would need to buy real estate while in the process of divorcing? It can wait? I mean, renting a place is a thing? Making a commitment to real estate in the midst of that degree of chaos sounds like poor judgment just on the face of it, but then there’s all the weird legal ambiguity plus if — and this part I have no idea about — there’s a mortgage involved, then that creates all kinds of potential awkward. I was told that on top of all those general observations, accounts were frozen, WHICH THEY FUCKING WELL SHOULD BE DO NOT BE STUPID LIKE WALKITOUT WAS WHEN YOUNG AND GETTING DIVORCED. I asked my then husband if he was going to clean the accounts out and he said no. Because he already had.
I mean, obviously, you get the money back in the course of the divorce (or not, in my case, but it went towards paying down debt so whatever), one way or the other but it can create real cash flow headaches if you need to buy groceries or pay rent and there’s nothing left in the account to pay it with.
SIL also said something about using her 401K to pay for the condo, which other people immediately said was a terrible idea, but when I listened to what they said on that topic, I was like, do you people even know how this shit works. If she borrowed the money and paid it back promptly, it shouldn’t be an issue. Altho she is under 59 1/2, so she’d have to be cautious. Honestly, if she borrowed the contents and had to pay it back with interest, it would make me feel like Universe delivered on FAFO. The divorcing couple really screwed over S. and the kids by backing J. in that divorce, and S. had to borrow a bunch of money from her 401K and various other high interest sources to get a good lawyer to fight off the two lawyers who are now in process of divorcing themselves.
A variety of things were included in the Waterfall of Words, and I’ve done a little checking around to try to understand more of the picture. I don’t think that anyone involved is lying, but I definitely do think that different elements of the truth are being presented in ways that are potentially misleading. Bernie Sanders ran on Vermont’s universal health care program, which had never been implemented and the enabling legislation undone at the time he ran on it. Did Vermont pass universal health care? Yes. Did it ever HAVE universal health care? No. Was that known when he was putting those ads out in 2016? Yes. I feel like that’s the vibe here, as well.
A little side note here. If someone ever takes your passport and won’t give it back to you, you should take that issue to the police. The specific law or laws being broken would be determined based on the precise scenario involved. If you are shopping this story to friends and family instead of going to the police, it’s instantly suspicious behavior. If someone tells you this story, and you think it’s NOT a ploy, then you should get them the hell away from whoever is holding their passport and when they are safe, help them through the process of establishing themselves in a separate life. However, in this particular instance, it appears that the passport was in an odd spot in the house, took a while to find, had already been FedExed, and the person telling me this story either knew all that, or just needed to go check her delivery locker at the marital condo and pick it up.
Did I say anything at all about this? No. No, I did not. All I said on that phone call was, I am here. I am listening. And then the waterfall continued, and when the Ask started, I said I didn’t feel comfortable getting in the middle of that, that R. (her brother) is her brother and I’m not getting in the middle of THAT either, and that R. and I have separate accounts. She said something along the lines of, I had wondered about that and got off the phone extremely quickly.
I assumed she would call R., but she didn’t. Not then and not later. R. and I talked for a bit, because the pressured speech, the plan to leave the country on a vacation while also trying to buy a condo while in the middle of a divorce added up in my head to someone who was Extremely Not In A Good Way. Whatever the rest of the story and whether any particular details were true or represented accurately or whether I had correctly understood anything seemed very minor by comparison.
I texted my niece and nephew to make it extremely clear that if they needed support, I was there for them. I pulled out the will and read through the list of people who are supposed to step up in the event of something really awful happening, and confirmed that this SIL is either not on a list or is the last person on the list. And I leaned on R. to think through what kind of relationship he wants with this sister going forward and what actions we should or should not take in support of that. He called his other sister and they had a chat and then we went out to dinner at Less Than Greater Than.
I went _back_ to my phone call with K. after the interruption, and she kindly listened to me supportively and then we carried on with our chat. It was extremely pleasant; I love her dearly. She’s really a reminder that some lawyers use their training for Good.
During the dinner with R. at Less Than Greater Than, BIL (the other half of the divorcing couple) called, and I picked up the phone with “I love you and I do want to talk to you but I’m at dinner now can I call you back in an hour or two or is this very urgent”, and he was headed to dinner in that time frame so we scheduled a call at 10 pm. Yes, this is my life now.
After dinner, I did FF and while J was not there because he was under the weather, the rest of us had a nice chat. P is going through the agonizing process of trying to find a high school for offspring that will be supportive of Their Complicated Awesomeness, so we talked some more about that. I also got to share some of the Ongoing Saga of In Laws; people really perk up when they hear there’s a new episode.
The 10ish pm phone call happened, and wrapped up after midnight. (You can see what I mean by Friday Involved a Lot of Talking). I generally enjoy talking to BIL. He usually listens to me at least somewhat, which compared to a lot of the inlaws is huge. He’s thoughtful and funny and loves his kids and he’s codependent as fuck and I don’t even really believe in codependency as a thing. There are supportive professionals in the picture and I _did_ say some things about lenses for thinking about relationships and the importance, as one relationship is winding down, of making sure that you understand your contribution in the patterns that led to that result so that you make different choices in future relationships. Because if there is a theme in Walkitout’s life and advice, it is that. It’s boring AF to make the same mistake. Always be making new mistakes.
Random bit of advice based on my interpretation of some things that were said. If you are out there engaging in online dating, make sure your photos are numerous and current (duh, you know that) but also, make sure that when people meet you in person, their first thought is, Wow, you’re even more attractive than I expected. Don’t make that photo your BEST look. Leave a little as a surprise to the in person meeting. Obviously, attractive photos help get you to that first date, but that little oomph can create an extremely positive frame around the interactions you have on that first date.
Finally, separate accounts, folks. Separate. Accounts. But if you didn’t do separate accounts, if you think you’re in a relationship with someone whose financial choices are not yours, go lock those fuckers down, in writing, unambiguously until you can get them separated. Marriage is supposed to help you accumulate assets, but people who are in distress can sometimes burn all that down.
ETA: If you’ve been thinking through this whole, long post But What If The Condo Will Cost Way More By the Time the Divorce is Done? Well, I still read Calculated Risk / Bill McBride’s blog, which means I’m still tracking real estate by market across the country on the regular. Condo is in Florida; it’ll be cheaper next year and the choices will be better.
ETAYA: I would say, how could I forget, but I mean. I got a call from SK because JB and DStM escalated my question about How Do I Do a Bonus For You. So we figured that out, which was really nice. I was too chicken to call and ask and it was Fixed for Me which I really appreciate.